Curse

SilenceWeaver · Nov 30, 2005, 12:10 AM // 00:10

another good move to use for an IW build is clumsiness.
its a good, quick, spike damage and works on almost everyone cause everyone attacks (except often monks) and barely anyone is quick enough to halt their attack when they see clumsiness on them.

but yeah in general IW is a crap build and really only works in random arenas where enchantment removal is rare. i think the reason so many people find it appealing (myself included) is because its fun and is a bit of a change of pace from the norm.

Vexed Arcanist · Nov 30, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

IW just seems so pointless, it can be easily removed and your whole build is centered around this skill so your useless until you can use it again, and useless again when its removed AGAIN, also too much of a hassle to use the cover enchant when you reapply IW, and if they are smart they would remove it before you get the cover enchant off

Well of course. Also on this topic is the fact most casters need energy to be effective and a good Mind Wrack mesmer will rip their energy away. Then they are shut down. Pin Down or a slow movement hex can pretty much shut down a warrior, and so on. Everything has a counter.

Illusion of Haste, as someone mentioned, is an okay cover enchantment BUT that is a healthy 10 energy rather often leaving you unable to do much else since you need 15 for IW when it recycles. Thus most go with Sympathetic Visage as it also performs very nicely to seriously cripple warrior damage output and can be applied to any ally should you find you don't need it and your monk is seriously under assault.

Hiryu · Nov 30, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

I'm pretty sure Hamstring and Distracting Blow don't work with Illusionary Weaponry. You actually have to "hit" the target (even though Distracting Blow doesn't say so). I'd recommend Imagined Burden for the snare. I'd recommend something like this for the Competition Arenas:

Me/W
16 Illusion, 13 (skill line 2), rest into fast casting

Flurry
Distortion (vs attacks)
Illusionary Weaponry
Imagined Burden
(Skill 5)
(Skill 6)
Illusion of Weakness
Ressurection Signet

If you want to be able to heal yourself, I'd recommend:
13 Inspiration, and:
Skill 5 = Ether Feast
Skill 6 = Power Drain (or anything else you want, eg: Inspired Hex or Enchantment)

If you want to have some shutdown ability, I'd recommend:
13 Domination, and
Skill 5 = Blackout
Skill 6 = Power Leak (or anything else you want, eg: Backfire)

Dmitri3 · Nov 30, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiryu

I'm pretty sure Hamstring and Distracting Blow don't work with Illusionary Weaponry. You actually have to "hit" the target (even though Distracting Blow doesn't say so). I'd recommend Imagined Burden for the snare. I'd recommend something like this for the Competition Arenas:

Me/W
16 Illusion, 13 (skill line 2), rest into fast casting

Flurry
Distortion (vs attacks)
Illusionary Weaponry
Imagined Burden
(Skill 5)
(Skill 6)
Illusion of Weakness
Ressurection Signet

If you want to be able to heal yourself, I'd recommend:
13 Inspiration, and:
Skill 5 = Ether Feast
Skill 6 = Power Drain

If you want to have some shutdown ability, I'd recommend:
Skill 5 = Blackout
Skill 6 = Power Leak (or anything else you want)

Illusion of Haste
Sympathetic Visage

As cover enchant and if target removed the hex and is now running away.
Plus since you don't need any points into anything but illusion magic, you can put the rest in fast casting (12+1).

But really the setup depends on the situation and your team...

You can even use Ethereal Burden for some extra snare+energy (but you really need fast casting for this spell).
Or arcane conundrum for anti monking.

Valheru · Nov 30, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

if you have extra attributes, an interesting alternative is to get inspiration and bring channelling as a cheap cover enchant and elemental resistance for fighting against elementalists.

stuh505 · Nov 30, 2005, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

but yeah in general IW is a crap build and really only works in random arenas where enchantment removal is rare. i think the reason so many people find it appealing (myself included) is because its fun and is a bit of a change of pace from the norm.

Yes, well, these are exactly the reasons why I like it.

He is designed for random PvP, and to be different.

stuh505 · Nov 30, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarus

IW isn't that great of a build considering your DPS still isn't as good as a normal warrior, you have no spike ability, and all it takes is a single drain enchantment to totally remove you from the fight. At the very least you should bring a cover like illusion of weakness to try and avoid the single drain ruining your day.

Also, since your sprint stinks (no strength) you're going to get owned by kiting and you can't use your attack speed boost while chasing them with sprint.

The only saving grace of an IW mes is that you can beat people up that are using block/evade skills.

DPS worse than normal warrior? Each hit with IW results in loss of 42 life regardless of armor level. This is on a sword which has the fastest attack rate of all weapons, with an additional 33% faster attack.

From my calculations based on the Guild Wars Damage calculator, a warrior can't do much more than 20 life loss per hit with an Axe with 50% AP, 20% ED, if the axe does 30 dmg...and the axe has a much lower attack rate as well.

Plus, the IW has 5 health degen on the whole time. So how does the Wa have higher DPS?

NatalieD · Nov 30, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Swords and axes have exactly the same attack rate. And your axe damage calculations are way off.

stuh505 · Nov 30, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Well, I don't mind being corrected if I'm way off. So feel free to show me the corrected calculations

Buzzer · Nov 30, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I agree with Valheru: Channeling can be a useful covering enchantment.

jesh · Nov 30, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Channeling and Sympathetic Visage are all nice in my experience as covers.

To all you people spouting crap you don't know about, Distracting Blow does work with IW. I've done it before. Unless they changed it in a patch, it's still that way.
As for Hamstring, it says, "If this attack hits", so I'm inclined to believe that it won't work. However, if the OP actually has used his build, I'm sure he wouldn't have a slot dedicated to a skill that doesn't work. Why don't you go try it?

As far as living, it's hard to get better than Distortion+Spirit of Failure. Then the only thing you have to worry about is spells. (Distracting Blow, Cry of Frustration, etc.)

Oh, and cyclone axe works with IW also.

holden · Nov 30, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Channeling and Sympathetic Visage are all nice in my experience as covers.

To all you people spouting crap you don't know about, Distracting Blow does work with IW. I've done it before. Unless they changed it in a patch, it's still that way.
As for Hamstring, it says, "If this attack hits", so I'm inclined to believe that it won't work. However, if the OP actually has used his build, I'm sure he wouldn't have a slot dedicated to a skill that doesn't work. Why don't you go try it?

As far as living, it's hard to get better than Distortion+Spirit of Failure. Then the only thing you have to worry about is spells. (Distracting Blow, Cry of Frustration, etc.)

Oh, and cyclone axe works with IW also.

the last time i ran this build, a month ago, Distracting Blow was not interrupting my target. Either i suck real bad, hey at least i dont run a warrior monk, or the previous patch got to my build. i think the patch before that took away my wonderful savage slash. it was quicker off the draw than distracting blow.

they take everything from my iw build. its squishy as hell....why nerf it.

but 42 dmg a swing is really nice. 42, 84, 126, 168, 210.......

stuh505 · Nov 30, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Jesh, I didn't say that I was using distracting blow...I said I was considering switching my secondary class with the intent of using it

From what I hear, it's been nerfed...I will just get these skills and try otu on my war first (when my comp gets fixed)

From my calculations it is impossible for a warrior to get anywhere near IW damage per second so I would still like to see someone show me how thats wrong

in fact, it seems that wa/me can still do more dmg than a primary war

jesh · Dec 01, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

the last time i ran this build, a month ago, Distracting Blow was not interrupting my target. Either i suck real bad, hey at least i dont run a warrior monk, or the previous patch got to my build. i think the patch before that took away my wonderful savage slash. it was quicker off the draw than distracting blow.

they take everything from my iw build. its squishy as hell....why nerf it.

but 42 dmg a swing is really nice. 42, 84, 126, 168, 210.......

I haven't used it recently, but it's nice to know that someone tried it. Sucks it's not doable anymore..

Stuh: I have a bad memory. Like as in I can't read two pages without forgetting something, apparently.

As for warrior dps... that's not counting skills. Warriors and rangers have the highest theoretical dps in the game.

stuh505 · Dec 01, 2005, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

As for warrior dps... that's not counting skills. Warriors and rangers have the highest theoretical dps in the game.

Highest possible ways to do dmg with warrior that I can think of:

Penetrating blow & Axe:
Axe: 6-28 dmg (17 avg)
5-17 extra damage (11 avg)
20% enhanced dmg
strength 26 (16% AP)
20% AP from penetrating blow (total 36% AP)
Life loss: 21
Note that you cannot use penetrating blow for every attack since its an adrenal skill.

How about with Executioner's strike:
6-28 base dmg (17 avg)
10-34 extra dmg (22 avg)
16% AP
20% ED
Life loss: 31

IW:
Life loss: 42
+ 5 health degen

As you can see, the average life loss from one of these super attacks is only 1/2 to 2/3 of the 42 life loss that is done on every single IW attack. Also IW has 5 health degen on.

Note that in all cases, I am talking about attacking someone who has 60 AL and is level 20. If they have more than 60 AL, they will obviously do even less dmg with the axe, but not with IW.

NatalieD · Dec 01, 2005, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Where the heck are you getting these ridiculous numbers, stuh?

edit: Ok, I can figure out at least one of them. You list Executioner's Strike as 10-34 damage as if that were a random range. 10-34 is actually the range of damage added for a range of Axe Mastery values 0-12. At 12 Axe Mastery, it always adds 34. And at 16 Axe Mastery, like most warriors worth their armor have, it's even more. Incidentally, AFAIK the extra damage from skills like Executioner's Strike is not subject to armor reduction - not that a character with 60 AL is reducing damage anyway...

Ellix Cantero · Dec 01, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I play IW builds a lot for fun (my current favorite is a ra/me). I play warrior 2nd most in tombs to monk, and a little in pve. Illusionary warriors can absolutely outdamage traditional warriors on heavily armored targets (other warriors for example). Against squishies, it's a toss up. An iway/tiger's fury axe warrior can probably outdamage 60AL targets a bit.

IW is a very fun build though, and can be effective in pvp contrary to belief.

entropy · Dec 01, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuh505

Highest possible ways to do dmg with warrior that I can think of:

Penetrating blow & Axe:
Axe: 6-28 dmg (17 avg)
5-17 extra damage (11 avg)
20% enhanced dmg
strength 26 (16% AP)
20% AP from penetrating blow (total 36% AP)
Life loss: 21
Note that you cannot use penetrating blow for every attack since its an adrenal skill.

How about with Executioner's strike:
6-28 base dmg (17 avg)
10-34 extra dmg (22 avg)
16% AP
20% ED
Life loss: 31

IW:
Life loss: 42
+ 5 health degen

As you can see, the average life loss from one of these super attacks is only 1/2 to 2/3 of the 42 life loss that is done on every single IW attack. Also IW has 5 health degen on.

Note that in all cases, I am talking about attacking someone who has 60 AL and is level 20. If they have more than 60 AL, they will obviously do even less dmg with the axe, but not with IW.

Before you make assumptions ask some people who have played axe warriors. If you have played it and never hit more than 31 then that is just pathetic. Also 16 axe mastery with eviscerate I have hit for 130 with a crit. With your calculations that is impossible.

holden · Dec 01, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Before you make assumptions ask some people who have played axe warriors. If you have played it and never hit more than 31 then that is just pathetic. Also 16 axe mastery with eviscerate I have hit for 130 with a crit. With your calculations that is impossible.

yes yes but its cooler if you're a weakass pansy mesmer wielding a sword, dressed in purple and yellow, putting the huuuuurt on some wammo.

theres no question a solid axe build would out damage the IW build. but anyone can do it. its what you do when IW is down that makes the build worthwhile or not.

jesh · Dec 01, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Hehe, and that's what makes it fun.

Although I'd never stoop to dressing my mesmer like that..
I'd actually play decoy most of the time, and use a focus/wand and just throw illusion hexes around. Some warrior gets the bright idea to go beat on the green squishie, and then I proceed to give him his butt on a platter. I really enjoyed playing with IW when I had that character, but frankly, it was boring as hell outside pvp, so it ended up deleted.